Aug 302013

Mystic Theurge by Jason Engle
Wizard/Cleric/Mystic Theurge

I was listening to Patrick and Sig discuss the new Sun Lord iconic class in DDOCast 301.

Their take was pretty negative. “A divine class with INT?” they said, or something to that effect anyway, “what’s the point?” And so the scoffing continued.

I don’t know if I know the point about Sun Lords, but I know a point: for the first time, a Cleric might have a usable number of skills. But on further thought, the INT bonus did not go far enough. Sun Lords get a bonus to Intelligence, their casting ability is still Wisdom-based.

Otherwise we could create Cleric/Wizard multi-class characters and that would be awesome. Sort of a roll-your-own Mystic Theurge. Check out the Mystic Theurge above, by Jason Engle.

I suppose one could do something like that now – max out CHA and have a Sorceror/Favored Soul. You’d have a divine caster/arcane caster that uses the same statistic to power all of her spells. The downside is caster levels. Many spells calculate damage or DC using the caster’s class level rather than the character level. In other words, if a Sorceror 10/FvS 10 hits you with Fireball, your save will be facing the same Fireball that a regular 10th level sorceror can throw, all those cleric levels are not included.

Although I wonder … does Heighten factor spell level increase based on casting class level? Or character level? I imagine the former but I do not know for sure.

Regardless, a 10th level FvS never gets Heal or Blade Barrier, while a 10th level sorceror is similarly limited to 5th level spells and lower. While this character could be very useful in tabletop D&D, it is just not so in DDO. Even a -shudder- bard would be more effective.*

* No offense meant to bards. It is not your fault that the game designers like all of the other classes better.

But all this got me to thinking. What if, instead of having to take non-classed Epic levels at level 21+, we could take anything? As long as we never exceeded 20 levels in any one class? Now a level 20 Sorceror/level 10 FvS is actually possible, and potentially, awesome! Or the reverse, an FvS20/Sorc10.

Think about it. 20 levels of caster, plus epic destinies, meaning you are absolutely end-game viable. Now throw in as many as 10 levels of the other kind of casting and wow, you are an amazing character. An 18/12 split means you would get 6th level spells from your off class.

Oh so tasty! An end-game Sorc that can play healer. Or an end-game FvS that can keep everyone Hasted and Raged and has several more DOT spells too!

Or what if we left the realm of pure casters and started talking about a Cleric 18/Paladin 8? Or a Wizard20/Monk10? or … or …

I have to stop I’m starting to drool.

Epic levels as they exist today are okay. Much better than the older alternative where one was capped at 20. But now that I have seen this other world, this magical place where I can take other classes instead of having to take an Epic level, now that I have been to this mountaintop, nothing will be the same.

I want it. I only wish I’d thought of it in time to talk to WB people about it when I was in the same room with them for the better part of two days.

A man has to have hope, right?

🙂 😀 🙂

  6 Responses to “What If We Could Multi-Class Past Level 20?”

Comments (6)
  1. Weren’t you able to do that in old AD&D. I might be wrong. The new Morning lords are great. The +INT helps with elemental spell power. I also see them being good with a trapper class splash.

  2. Bards of the world, unite!

  3. In AD&D non-humans were able to level two or three classes simultaneously, but generally had low level limits to how far they could ultimately advance in certain classes, or were forbidden from some classes altogether. For instance, only Humans could be Paladins and Dwarves were never wizards. The level limits could be as low as 6th in classes the game designers felt the race simply wasn’t suited for, but could still actually become to as high as 15th or even unlimited level progression in classes the race was really well suited (sometimes divinely designed) for.

    Humans, on the other hand, were only restricted by two things: lifespan and ability scores. To dual-class (a misnomer), you needed at least a 15 in your original class prime requisite score and at least a seventeen in the prime requisites of any classes you want to become.

    Humans could achieve potentially any level in as many alternate classes as they wanted in this fashion with the caveat that while playing the new class, using abilities from an old class could, at the DM’s discretion, diminish your XP gain for a given encounter or adventure as applied to the new class since you weren’t committing fully to your new profession and were falling back into old habits to get by. Lenient DMs such as myself would make a judgement call regarding how much you stuck to your new class in these instances and assign XP percentages to each class whose abilities you drew upon accordingly. Less lenient DMs would only let you keep XP that represented how much you were using your current class skills and the rest was lost. Hardasses would rule that ANY use of your old skills until you surpassed the highest level previously attained in those classes would result in total loss of XP for the encounter or even entire adventure.

    It was all far messier and more complex than 3E and later iterations of the game and I absolutely loved it that way!

  4. Obviously you missed my post in the fora (sorry, “forums”) about the lack-of-love for “non-specialist” and “non-Sword & Board” fighters with the new EN pass; at least bards get useful stuff, like “Wail” and “Heal”, now. So bards *may* be in the top 2 of dev unliked classes, but non-specialist/S&B fighters still top the list.

    But yeah – it would be cool to multi-class past level 20. And is that “hope” or “rope”?

  5. Thanks Geoff, now I will be taking any epic levels begrudgingly due to this post. 🙂

  6. Shouldn’t a person be able to take their builds to the end game? Why limit the work and time put into them? I just started a couple of months ago and have dualed my Theif with Barb and am thinking of dualing my Pal with Sorc., do those seem viable for a f2p?

What do you think?

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