Dec 292015

Two Weeks of New Loot
I don’t know how your brain works, or for that matter, anyone’s, but mine has first-reaction thoughts and then later, more thoughtful thoughts. They won’t be usefully thoughtful, or more valid, or lucid, or any of that. They are still my thoughts after all. But they are likely to be different.

Putting me in a weird state where I end up with two differing sets of ideas about one thing.

For example, Star Wars. But it is still too soon to talk about that. So instead, let’s talk about the new random loot generation system.



My first thoughts about the new loot system are not good. Not good at all. I am immediately bewildered by the amount of time spent versus value received. The new system has so many flaws! And even when it works, it is not better, it is merely different.

And then I start thinking about it in detail. Even then, still negatives. At first. But read on:

Lower level mismatch

Vorpal on level one weapons? I don’t need to say anything else do I?

Effects that Didn’t Scale and then Did and now Don’t Again

Deathblock and Keen and many other effects were changed (fairly recently) to appear in minor versions at lower levels and gradually power up with higher minimum levels. This scaling was reflected in the weapon name, for instance you might get an item with Deathblock III or Keen II.

But no more. Now it is back to just Deathblock again. Although for some reason, everything that is Keen is Keen I.

We were told this scaling was necessary and had to be done, except apparently  it was not. Apparently it was just a waste of time. Or maybe the newer version is a waste of time and we will eventually get the older version back?


Mixed Effect Types

Almost every weapon is now a mixture of spellcasting implement and melee. It is very unusual to find a weapon that is “pure”, just a caster weapon or just a melee weapon.

Most random loot was vendor trash before, and it still is. This change goes in the category of not better or worse, just different.


Whimsical names are whimsical

All the New Effect Titles

Cold resistance is now “Charred”. Cold absorption is now “Blazing”. Cold damage is now “Chilled”. Because … well … I have no idea why we needed new names.

Titles Do Not Describe the Item

Several effects simply do not show up in item titles at all; I suspect this is a bug, and I will list it with the other bugs.

But it appears to be working as intended that some effects appear in the item title but do not actually describe the effect. For instance, “of Slaying” means that the item confers bane damage on hit. But you have to mouseover the item and read the description to see what kind of bane it is. Making them useless to me.

Impossible to find in the auction house, and impossible to pick the right one in the heat of battle.

No DR-breaking Effects

There is no more Metalline. No more Transmuting. No more Aligned. No more Holy or Pure Good or Righteous.

There is still alignment damage but it isn’t shown in the weapon title, nor does it appear in the list of weapon damage types. Does Evil damage break Evil DR? I dunno.Weapons do still drop with Adamantine and Silver, but I haven’t seen Flametouched Iron or Byeshk yet.

If you already have something that is Silver of Aligned, or Adamantine of Smiting, or any of those, hold onto them. You won’t get another.

Removed Effects

I have not yet seen Banishing, Smiting, or Disruption on anything new. Nor Deception. [Edit] readers are reporting that Deception still exists. Maybe these exist and are just rare, but since Paralyzing and Vorpals now fall like rain, I suspect they are not rare and are just gone.

Bugged end rewards

Bugged end rewards


Since this is DDO it is inevitable that a new system will be buggy. You would think that testing the new loot system would include generating at least one item with every effect to ensure that they all at least appear to work correctly, but I guess that just seemed like too much work.

  • Speed and Armor-Piercing do not show up in weapon titles
  • Alignment damage does not show up in weapon titles (but is properly reflected in weapon background colors)
  • End rewards appear with no magical effects of any sort
  • Cannot deconstruct new weapons
  • At least three different effects show up as “Reconstruction”
  • Bonuses of +0

The worst bug of all is that some of the item effects actually cause lag. The most severe offenders were muted in the emergency hotfix. But even post-hotfix, lag is still much worse since the new system went live.

And Yet

Finally, after all this is processed, my brain starts to recognize that it is not all bad. Some of it is good. Some of it is very good.

Armor has all kinds of effects on it that you could not get before. Combat Mastery? Spellcasting implement? Stat bonus?

Good caster weapons are now harder to find, but better when found, with new combinations that are even more powerful. I found a khopesh that has Combustion, Insightful Combustion, and Insightful Universal Spell power: a total of more than 200 fire spell power in one hand.

Weird that it was on a khopesh, but still, nice!

A Pleasant Buzz

I am surprised by how much the new loot has changed guild conversations. Everyone is constantly linking something or another. A ring with Constitution and Spot. A cloak with Poison Resistance and Insightful Poison Resistance. Assassinate on all kinds of different items.

People are excited.

When we loot chests, we stop and look at every item. More linking. Lots of chatter. Chatter is good! People are having fun. And that is the point, right? Fun?

How weird, my final thoughts on the matter are much more complex and nuanced than I’d expected. Yes, the new loot system is bad, in many ways. But also, it is good. Surprisingly good.

Fun, even.

Now that I’ve seen it in action, I still wish it had been done better. But I am glad it got done. I both dislike it and like it, at the same time.

I can only give it one thumb up, when it could/should have been two. But it is a fun thumb, and I am happy to see it.

🙂 😀 🙂

p.s. Get your nominations in!

Enter your nominations for the 2015 Gamey awards!

  15 Responses to “Two Weeks of New Loot”

Comments (15)
  1. I think the shear number of possible effect added to the loot table make it rare to get that one really awsome item. I think it also is the root cause for all of the truly bizarre combinations of effects. I don’t necessarily think this is a bad thing. There is the possibility for some truly amazing random loot…so you are drawn to inspect every single item now. In the past it was always just pick renown and vendor everything else.

    As for deception….I did find a deception item in random loot a couple of days ago…so it does exist.

  2. I am pretty sure I got several deception items on my rogue. And I do like the names, it feels more D&D like to have items with names instead of the roman numbers thing. But there are a whole lot of bugs (like the names not always fitting the effects and some things not scaling up etc).

    All in all I am glad they did go in and work on loot. But it really does need a whole lot more work to get it actually working

  3. Banishing, Smiting, or Disruption are part of ‘bane’ IIRC and do believe have seen smiting (construct bane)….

    think it is a work in progress and that peeps have to remember that 75% of loot is always going to be trash, 20% is going to be decent or even good, and 5.9% will be great, but only .1% should be wow – the stars aligned on this. Otherwise everything would be uber and nothing would be special. it would be like every dungeon being filled with champion bosses…. just … not …. right …. and …. totally …. boring.

    The system rewards those that are paying attention.

    If you want perfectly fitting gear, have it custom fit. Nothing else in the world like a custom tailored suit (oops, suit of armor!).

    They (the dev’s) have had to invent and re-invent new technologies for this. everything is controlled by algorithms, and those formulas need some tweaking. No way to be perfect at first, needed millions and millions of iterations all looked at by humans in order to do that. Best way is what is going on now – we see the flaws and talk about them.

    seen an alluring +14 ring of +14 dex (and chr)…. so there is some really good loot out there… but the best was a ring with 3 awesome collaborative synergistic effects, all maxed out for level and masterful craftmanship.

    SO in the end – the system is flawed and needs some adjustment, but is a massive step in the right direction because of two things:

    1) behind the curtains – allows dev’s to create and update both cannith and random loot and even raid loot fast and efficiently, many times more efficient than previous. Allows for more better faster…

    2) since the dev’s have done this, can we (we can IMHO) infer that Turbine has committed to this scaling for the foreseeable future? This commitment might be a big power leap now, but stabilizes all future content (and revamped content). Math and formula allow them to create multiple versions of the same quest easily and fast and cheap – meaning (hopefully) more and better content. So Heroic, Epic and Legendary versions of the same quest? No problem at all!

    Its these type of internal upgrades that will allow DDO to see a 20th year.

    • Well, I guess since you can get a vorpal of slaying weapon at quite low level, that’s near enough to banishing/smiting/disruption/etc.

  4. I have come to not be so disparaging against those new lowbie Vorpals (that apparently will get reassigned a higher value soon™). As I mentioned in a thread somewhere, the Vorpal hardly ever procs when those lowbie characters are using them as the mob they’re fighting is usually already dead in a couple hits.

    The display bugs are annoying as heck, but will hopefully be fixed soon™ishly, too.

    The non-deconable loot is a major annoyance for me, as I decon EVERYTHING I get my grubby mitts on. I’ve been ‘storing’ stuff on the AH in hopes of a fix on that, but have actually started *selling* my junk loots. I hadn’t done that in literally YEARS til now. 🙁

    This past week I have not gone adventuring for loot. If wasn’t for coins and guild bonuses (Saga runs), I’d still be over on Hobbit-side fishing.

  5. It’s fun… but frustrating. Particularly as the melee toons I play.

    – Deadly items are hard to get now, and when they do appear, they are mixed with… something else, which reduces the enhancement.
    – Is there ever justification for spellcasting enhancements (especially lame ones) being added to a martial weapon? The _only_ rationale I can make is for a devotion buff (though if you’re going to do that, heal amp makes more sense so that it would apply to more classes).
    – Releasing these changes without a simultaneous update to cannith crafting makes no sense whatsoever. But of course, that mechanic has been hopelessly left behind by multiple years of neglect.

    I need add nothing more – solid treatment above. I, too, like the general concept… but it’s a massive effort that remains incomplete.

  6. My first reaction was wow, look at this cool new loot with 3 effect instead of 2 and more synergies.

    My second reaction was oh god, this isn’t power creep it’s power jump.

    My third reaction was, what a load crap. Fun crap, but crap.

    Then I discovered you couldn’t deconstruct it and I gave up.

  7. It’s a pretty crazy new world, so much old loot is invalidated … I wonder if old named loot, including challenge loot, will get a pass to make them worth the effort, otherwise why even both doing a raid 20 times to get something worse than the loot gen?

    When they did the spell power pass a little while back, challenge loot from House Cannith and I suspect other locations) got hit hard.

  8. Some effects should not appear so randomly. Why assassination bonus in a bow if it is a melee attack. It’s also weird to get a level 3 item with assassination bonus, since it is a tier 5 enhancement, therefore we just can use it at level 12. These issues and the +0 bonus are frustrating. However, I like the general idea of 3 effects and synergie. One big problem is the insight bonus. I found an item with +8 insight bonus to disable device and I’m not sure if any trap on my level range can be a challenge now, even in builds with minimum trapper habilities. Why spend feats and action points in trap related habilities if we can boost it with insight skill bonus? Every level 1 rogue or art would be able to pick all locks and find and disable all traps using these insight stacking bonus. So what comes next? Higher DCs? It would be boring like Dragon Ball. The powerfull faces the overpower, than become overpower and face the moreoverpower, and so on. Numbers would scale at both sides, DC and skill, but the fun… I’m not sure. Maybe we will just have to change one more item before use search/open lock/disable device.

    Sorry about my weird english.

  9. I got a ring that gives a +9 to CON and +9 to DEX. ML 22. The holder is level 20, and can’t wait to be 22 to equip it! 🙂

  10. Just popping in to say that I can confirm at least one instance in which alignment damage on a new-gen weapon doesn’t add the DR breaking value to the weapon. Taking a newly-generated item that has the good-damage bonus into Delera’s does NOT bypass the DR of the ghostly skeletons as good is not part of the weapon damage type-list. Fortunately for my brother, the club of the holy flame didn’t unceneter his monk and I passed him mine so he could dual-wield (he has two-weapon fighting after all) while I passed a sunblade to my character.

    But yeah, BIG fail on the whole “accommodating existing DR” thing, but I generally agree that the loot feels more….. fun? varied? enjoyable to take a look at?

  11. The new loot system has definitely got our guild talking and linking things back and forth much more often now than ever before. However, I’m still finding it hard to understand the need for vorpal and assassinate weapons and items at levels 5 and lower. Although the vast majority of new effects has definitely made things more interesting.

    I’m just hoping they get the bugs worked out with the crafting system. And I didn’t realize about the damage resistance issues. That isn’t good at all, hopefully that will be fixed as well.

    • I’d like to add that in my experience “assassinate” seems to be the new “ghostbane”; it’s just showing up all OVER the place…. and interestingly enough I’ve not run across *any* random-gen weapon with a ghost touch property either…. ((Thankfully my brother and I got the the handwraps/dagger from the catacombs end reward list with ghost touch on the new characters we created to check out the new loot system.))

      Also, as a side note, it would be good for bugs to be worked out of the crafting system, but there really need to be some major design and implementation changes and decisions that need to be performed on the system. :/

What do you think?

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