Jul 142015

The Temple of Insuffucient Mushrooms

I’m going to pretend that this is not a rant, but more of a beef. A beef is better, yes? A righteous call-out of something that is bugging me, rather than a graceless and nonconstructive bitch session. Plus it isn’t even that serious of a beef. No one is going to like everything;ย  that’s just an unrealistic expectation. So this isn’t a rant, and isn’t really even a beef. It is simply that I don’t like something, which is okay, right? Right?

Okay. Deep breath.


I am seriously tired of the Temple of Elemental Evil.

Yes I know how lovely it is (and it is quite lovely. You really should click on the wallpaper preview below to see the full-sized version. It is breathtaking). And yes, I know it is based on a classic D&D module and we love classic D&D modules. But nonetheless, I am tired of it. Exhausted. Approaching disgusted.

There, I said it. And I am. Totally. Tired. Of. TOEE. It is a fine quest, excellent the first time through. Still fine on the second run, and the the third. But you need to run the quest 15-20 times to outfit one character with temple gear. Fifteen to twenty times! And it is just not that kind of quest.

The Temple of Elemental Evil
Such a pretty quest. And so exciting the first few times through!
Click the image to see the HD version. Seriously you want to click this.

We used to have to run Tower of Despair 20 times to get the ring we wanted. Or forty, or even sixty if one was unlucky. And that was per-character that wanted a ring.

And that was grindy. But still, it was different. For one thing, ToD is a raid; you run it in a group. It has variety; there are three different boss fights and each one requires different tactics and styles. And on top of that, it can be learned and then run rather quickly, maybe 30 minutes start to finish. So yes, it was a grind, and we accepted that. But it was a relatively acceptable grind.

TOEE is not like that at all. It is just relentless. You walk into a room and have to fight a dozen monsters. While you are doing this, you can see down the hall, and there are three more stacks of a dozen monsters, all just standing there for no reason, all of which you are going to have to bypass or deal with. Over and over and over. And the halls just keep going … all filled with aimlessly loitering stacks of monsters.

Sneak doesn’t work. Crowd control doesn’t work. If you don’t just kill everything you end up with Red Alert and probably dead. There may be some people who have perfected some tactics to remove a little of the sting out of this but I haven’t seen it. Whether running in a PUG, or running in my guild, it always boils down to kill everything.

Some efficiency can be bought by splitting up a little and covering more ground. Some fights can be avoided by scouting hallways for dead ends and just skipping them if they don’t contain a chest. But nothing changes the endless slog of kill a dozen orcs, then a dozen cultists, then a dozen of something else, then repeat over and over until you find yourself nodding off at your keyboard wishing you could just take a nap and have it all be over when you wake up.

The best we’ve ever done as a guild is two hours, start to finish, parts one and two. And I felt pretty good about that. But that is basically the entire evening.

You suck. But yes.
So tiring. So grindy. And so required.

I’ve been through both parts on a variety of characters about a dozen times. I helped my Gamer Girl build a weapon before I started accumulating for myself. But even so, after a dozen trips I have enough mushrooms of various colors to build about a weapon and a half.

All I want to do is build two weapons and one armor. Well, no, actually I wanted to build a variety of things for my various characters, like I usually do when this sort of thing comes up. Crossbow for my artificer, rapier for my Commando, maul for my fighter, etc. But I had to pull back, way back, to have any hope of achieving these goals at all.

Two weapons. One suit of armor. Just enough stuff to equip one character. One! And even that is another 8-10 complete runs through both chapters.

I don’t know if I have it in me. It isn’t fun anymore, it’s just work. Blehh.

I sure hope Update 27 is a turnaround from the way that the Temple of Elemental Evil works. I am rooting for something that is very, very different.

Come on Update 27!

What do you think? Am I out of line here?

๐Ÿ™‚ ๐Ÿ˜€ ๐Ÿ™‚

  19 Responses to “The Temple of Insufficient Mushrooms”

Comments (19)
  1. I have completed part 1 two times and part 2 once.I have a bunch of craftable weapons and my guildie has put some stuff in the guild chest.. but I’m not really that interested in TOEE loot. I’m sticking with thunderforged.

  2. I feel your pain Geoff. If a quest is not fun I have a hard time grinding it…

  3. Geoff, I think you and I are psychically linked or something. You always say what I want to say, only twenty times better. I have exactly 0 TOEE items crafted. Why? See above quote. It’s the same reason that I have 0 dragonscale armors. Grinding sucks. Aslo: Grinding, it REALLY sucks!

  4. Done a bunch of grinding on that one, to get 2 weapon/armour sets – an acid casty stick plus medium armour for my warlock, and a light armour plus great crossbow for my mechanic, and the crossbow especially IMO is better than tier 2 thunderforged (not made any T3 TF yet) – with the enhancement pass, that thing is an absolute beast.

    One big positive regarding the crafted gear – even with the 2nd upgrade (don’t know about mythic upgrade) the items will stay bound to account, and all of the components to upgrade it are unbound or BtoA too so you can run the quest on a variety of characters & be working towards something pretty tasty.

  5. I hear you Geoff. It is a bit of a grind. I only made one complete heroic weapon and moved on, but I used that weapon a lot. I didn’t have green steel yet, so I used it well past the point where I thought I’d give up on it. At level 17, I finally made my Lit2 sword for my pally and put away the Mythic Etched Bastard Sword of Acid Torrent. I still miss the constant green splashes. They hit mobs at amazing distances.

    BTW, I used my level 28 shuricannon to gather the mushrooms and it went a lot faster. ๐Ÿ™‚

  6. First off – sneak DOES work there. I’ve finished part one with sixteen kills and updated the Wiki with the Discreet and Devious bonuses for both parts. With the exception of the oozes in part two’s Earth Temple, which are an auto detect, you can sneak through the whole thing.

    Second – it’s LOADS faster, in the long run, to go for speed completions rather than clearing the entire map. Once you know the route, you can do part one in fifteen to twenty minutes.. and since it’s the 200 Rusty Gilled that are really holding back crafting, that’s what’s important. Sure, a lucky run can net you more in a single completion, but keep running it and you will eventually get skunked and waste a whole load of time.

    Part Two is a little more random… That’s luck of the draw on any given layout as to whether you’ll spend ten minutes or forty minutes in a node. Only thing I’ve found that’s concrete and not superstition is that the gems never spawn in shrine rooms.

    And lastly – my big beef is there is a HUGE discrepancy between the drop rates of Yellow Parisol mushrooms and their crafting needs. On every other mushroom, I’m usually scraping teeth for any given craft project, but there are the Yellows sitting there, eight hundred deep, giggling because only a handful of them will leave… sigh.

    • You must be extremely sneaky. I brought an epic character in on Heroic Elite and still could not reliably sneak. I’d get by a few stacks of monsters but all that did was ensure that I was fully surrounded when something would inevitably spot me, bringing everything within a hundred yards over to Red Alert me to death.

      • Half of it is the sneak skills, and half of it is using tactics from decades of playing Tenchu, Metal Gear, Thief, and the like… misdirection is critical in ultra-crowded places like the Temple ๐Ÿ˜€

        But I will also freely admit – when things go south while sneaking, they have a nasty habit of going REALLY south.. lol

        • Judicious placement of web & glitterdust traps can be a big help, especially if you’ve invested those APs into improved traps

          • Hunh.. can’t say I’ve ever tried that route. Of course, my stealth masters are rangers, so that probably has a lot to do with why ๐Ÿ˜€

  7. To get more mushrooms I run them on elite. For part 1, level 1, make your tour, then goto the lower level. Once the lower level is cleaned out and you have the keys, DDoor back the the beginning and go thru part 1 again and there will be respawn and more chests. You need 200 skins for the first upgrade. Depending on your luck, 2-3 runs.

    For part 2 the yellow mushrooms come easy enougth, but I still run elite because I want the elemental mushrooms (50). You can do just the node you want, or all of them. Depending on which cleric you kill first, you can manipulate which nodes come up first for your 50 farm to make it go faster.

    DDoor will make runs go allot of faster in general when strategically used. For example, in part 1, lower level, you can grab all 3 keys and DDoor instead of fighting. Goes even faster when the group splits up and does all the keys at once.

    • For part 2, the elemental mushrooms can come a fair bit easier with a little “i need X, will trade my other colours for them” in the group chat, or the lfm – with a little luck & a group where everyone wants different ones, you can get them in 1 or 2 runs.

      If you’re only after one type, keep an eye on the general chat panel to determine which element has opened first, and the node gems always unlock in the fire-air-water-earth-fire… pattern – the avatar cycle, if you’re a fan of that series, which makes it easier to remember ๐Ÿ™‚

  8. Agreed with your feelings here. The devs flat out put way too many monsters in the quest with not enough ways to bypass them. It makes the quest overly long and monotonous.

  9. I mostly don’t grind for ANYTHING unless it’s something I really, really, REALLY want.

    There are things from ToEE I’d like to have and upgrade, but nothing from there I’d really grind for. So I still enjoy it, because I only run it when I *want* to run it.

    … and that leaves me more time to keep grinding EE Vol for a Mythic Emerald Gaze, which at this point Even wants more on principle than because she actually needs it. So Vol isn’t so fun for me any more. LOL

  10. Torn on this. Concur with Thorlorin on sneaking in TOEE. Works but you really need Faster Sneaking and sometimes Invisibility to help. Hate slow grinding for farming but a Lesser Displacement outfit would be so nice. I would be happier with finding that Sapphire Sting now, especially Epic.

  11. I still say that TOEE needs a pass. I want more stuff to interact with. I want a whole lot more DM narration – Wil Weeton isn’t exactly shy when it comes to talking about D&D. I want a whole lot more narration from him to bring the place to life. I want to spend time exploring and doing stuff, but TOEE is just corridors packed with packs of mobs. There’s just not enough to do. I want doors and in-quest door spikes that allow me to lock myself in for a power nap to regen HP and SP. I want to be able to dissolve the blue rubble blocking the corridors and access other areas. I want to interact with the forges and rooms filled with barrels. I just want more from this quest. I have the awful feeling that the release date was fixed in stone and the devs delivered as much as they could in the time they had. I think most of all, i just really want this quest to have a revamp, but I don’t see it ever happening.

  12. My biggest problem is that I never get more than one mushroom from any given chest. That’s right, one-count-it-ONE mushroom, no matter the difficulty I run it on, no matter what other variations occur in group composition or whatever… ONE MUSHROOM! And in case you haven’t noticed, it takes 200 for the first tier upgrade. Forget a month, try a decade!

What do you think?

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